“After The Dissolution Of This Parliament, We Want To Form An Interim Legislature”

July 14, 2006
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— DR. BABURAM BHATTARAI

Dr. Baburam Bhattarai is the number two leader in the Maoist party. Convener of the United Revolutionary National People’s Council – a political wing of the Maoists, he has earned his doctorate in Urban Planning from Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi. A leading ideologue, Dr. Bhattarai has been involved in the Maoist People’s War since its inception. Dr. Bhattarai who is in capital valley in recent times, spoke with MADHAV KUMAR RIMAL and SANJAYA DHAKAL on various political issues. Excerpts:

What are your party’s immediate plans to restore peace and normalcy in the country?

As you know when we signed the 12-point understanding with seven parties last November, the basic roadmap is outlined there. We see democracy, peace and progress as a whole. These three aspects cannot be separated from each other. If you talk only of democracy and forget the other two, that is not going to solve the problem. If you talk only of peace, that also won’t do. But if you talk only of democracy and peace, that will be status quoist peace. We want forward-looking peace. So we want democracy, peace and progress. They must go together.

But, what are the means? How do you achieve them without peace? Do you think there will be total peace?

If you have democracy and progress, there will be peace. Without democracy and progress, there won’t be peace. But, of course, you need peace for progress.Do you think the SPA will be able to give democracy to the country?

Their idea of democracy is very one-sided and lopsided. For the last 12 years after 1990 change, they ruled the country but they couldn’t give genuine democracy to the majority of the people. That’s why we had to raise arms

against their form of democracy. We wanted full democracy to be enjoyed by the vast majority of the people; basically the downtrodden poor people, women, Dalit, oppressed nationalities, Madhesis. We want democracy for all of them. After this movement, we hope we will achieve that.

Do you believe your party will be able to win absolute majority in the general elections whenever it is held in Nepal?

We are not talking about general elections. We first want restructuring of the state and society. This is our basic agenda. First, we want elections for the constituent assembly.

What about in the elections after the constituent assembly?

Let’s first have the constituent assembly. Let it formulate a new constitution and devise a new state and new society, which will be very progressive and democratic. In that democratic state and society, we hope to win absolute majority. We should win.

Can your party meet the people’s aspirations for clean, efficient and patriotic government?

We hope so. First, let me clarify one thing. For us, democracy and nationalism, they must go together. In the past, the Panchayat or royal palace talked only of nationalism, they forgot or silenced democracy. Likewise, the other seven parties, they talked of democracy but they forgot the question of nationalism. So, our Maoist movement wants to integrate democracy and nationalism. If you see the 40-point demands we put forward before initiating People’s War, you will see that. When we come to power, we would like to integrate both the factors so that we can solve the problem in peaceful, democratic and progressive manner.

Are you prepared to join a coalition government under other party’s leadership?

At the moment, this is a transitional stage. If you are talking about after the CA election, it depends. Before the CA elections, we are having interim constitution and interim government, which will be a coalition government. After the CA elections, we hope to win majority so there will be no need for a coalition government. But if the situation demands, we will have to.

The trend in modern day politics all over the world is such that no party may win absolute majority. If similar situation is to arise here, what would you do?

First we should talk about the new state. Government is a part of the state. First we want to institutionalize a state that will incorporate interests of all classes, downtrodden, oppressed nationalities, women and Dalit. After that, when elections are held to represent all these sections of people, we hope to win absolute majority. In case we have to enter into coalition government with like-minded parties, we will have to do it. But we will not compromise on our principles just for the sake of power.

Do you think your party will be ready to compromise its ideology in the context of global economy?

No, its not a question of compromising our ideology. Our ideology is not that dogmatic and rigid. Our ideology is a science, which has to develop according to the demands of the 21st century. As they say, Marxism is not a dogma but a guide to action. Whatever the situation demands, we have to be able to remodel ourselves according to the situation. So, we don’t think there will be a need to compromise our ideology. Our ideology can fulfill the demands of the time.

So, you won’t mind going for market economy?

We are not for blind market economy. What they call market economy, there is no market economy in a pure sense anywhere in the world. For national interest, everybody puts some curb on it. Even in the USA, the biggest economy in the world, there is no absolutely free market economy and same thing is true for Japan or Germany or elsewhere. A poor country like ours cannot go for absolute market economy.

Since Nepal will initially need international cooperation for its speedy economic development, how do you plan to obtain that kind of cooperation?

We have started dialogue with international community. We have talked with some of the ambassadors. We talked to representatives of the World Bank and some of the international institutions. We are trying to clarify our position. Our position is, we are ready to work with the international community. But they also have to cooperate with the democratic aspirations of the Nepali people. Whatever Nepali people decide, they should not impose their will. They should respect our sovereignty and independence. If they do it, we are ready to cooperate.

Being aware of Nepal’s vulnerabilities, how will you plan to steer Nepal as a sovereign and independent nation?

We are very sensitive about the independence and sovereignty of the country. We won’t compromise at any cost about the nationalism and sovereignty of the country. This is our first principle. Keeping this in mind, we are ready to cooperate with major international players including our immediate neighbors India and China.

India has preconceived notions about its own security for which it wants special cooperation from Nepal. In that context, how will you go?

During the insurgency of ten years, people tried to concoct various theories alleging that we have been guided/influenced by various international powers. But nobody could prove we were guided by anybody. Our insurgency or our movement was totally independent and totally homegrown. We did not seek any support – physical or material – from anybody else. In that sense, since it is a totally homegrown movement, once we come to power we will be able to maintain a harmonious relation with immediate neighbors India and China. We also understand that India has some old notions of national security. In this 21st century, that old notion doesn’t hold good anymore. They will have to develop their national security notion in a dynamic manner. Since we are located in between big countries like India and China, we will have to cooperate with them. But they should also cooperate with us to respect our independence.

Do you think the SPA government is fully abiding by the agreements signed between you two?

The 12-point understanding and 8-point agreement laid down basic roadmap of peace and democracy in the country. But after we signed the 8-point pact, there were some discordant notes from responsible leaders. That is quite unfortunate. That’s why we rushed back to Kathmandu to make our positions clear. Now these things have improved. We hope they will abide by the agreements signed by themselves.

How do you look at Nepal-India relations? Do you think they need improvement? Can you suggest any measure?

Of course, there are some problems in Nepal-India relations. Nepal and India are economically, physically, culturally, socially inter-related. We will have to co-exist. That historical and national compulsion, nobody can deny. But if you see historically, since the days of the Sugauli Treaty in 1816, there are some unequal provisions in the relation between India and Nepal. In our public statements and private dialogue, we have been raising this issue. This unequal relation should be changed according to the changed demand of the times like the 1950 treaty whose certain provisions are not equal and are to the disadvantage of Nepal. Through dialogue, we hope we can change it to the advantage of Nepali people and to the mutual interest of both the countries.

Do you mean to say 1950 Treaty needs some kinds of improvements or do you think it should be quashed and a new one signed?

The 1950 Treaty was signed when Ranas were in power and before the beginning of the democratic era. Since then times have changed, demands have changed and aspirations of peoples have changed. So, the best thing will be to do away with it and sign a new treaty.

How do you look at the Anglo-American decision to follow India’s lead in matters related to Nepal?

We don’t know whether they are following India’s lead or not. It is quite confusing. The way the US makes statements – very unwarranted and disturbing statements – we are not sure if they are following the lead.

In this connection, how would you assess the recent remarks and role of American ambassador to Nepal, James Moriarty?

The way Moriarty is making unfortunate-type statements, I think he is not able to come out of the old Cold War mindset. Things have changed but Moriarty seems to be sticking to the old mindset of the Cold War era. We hope he will be able to change his mindset and understand the aspirations of the Nepali people and cooperate with their democratic aspirations.

Don’t you think the interim government that will conduct the CA elections must be fully representative of all classes and sections of Nepali society?

Exactly, this is one of our basic demands. In the interim constitution only we want to formulate such clauses where all sections of people will be represented in the interim government. After the dissolution of this parliament, we want to form an interim council where all these people will be represented.

Bigger parties are not in the mindset to give representation to smaller parties. And since the interim government will have to include all sections, is it going to be very big?

We can’t say how big the interim government will be. The main thing is we want to create an interim parliament or interim legislature, which should include all the sections of the people. The eight-point understanding also talks about creating interim legislature after dissolving the current parliament.

How would you select the members of this interim legislature?

They will be chosen according to the aspirations of this recent 19-day People’s Movement. All the major players who contributed to the movement – the seven parties, the CPN-Maoist, civil society and various groups of nationalities and others will be represented in the interim legislature.

What will happen if the agreements between your party and the SPA fail to function?

That will be very disastrous for the country and the people. Lets not think it will fail. We have to make it a success. Various forces are trying to sabotage that, we are aware of that. The unity among the seven party, CPN-Maoist and the civil society should be maintained until there is free and fair election to the CA.

In this connection, how do you feel about the lack of consultations (with your party and SPA) when PM Koirala dispatched a letter to the UN seeking its help in arms management?

Even we were surprised by that letter. They shouldn’t have done that. Anyway this unilateral action won’t make any sense. The UN wants letter from both sides.

So, are you going to write letter to the UN?

First, we would like to know what they have written. Our agreement was both should write same type of letter. Now, we want to see what they have written then if necessary we will also write a letter. But we do not agree with the way they have gone ahead.

Can you clarify the issue of arms management? There are suspicions that you will not be laying down arms before entering into interim government.

Some people have not understood the essence of the 12-point understanding and 8-point agreement. The issues of arms and armies have already been settled in those agreements. That means, till the time of the CA election, both the armies will be kept at different places – the Nepal Army will be kept in barracks and our People’s Liberation Army will be kept at definite points and that will be monitored by international body. This has already been agreed to. So, there is no question of laying down arms. Arms will be laid down only after the election of CA. Before that nobody is going to lay down their arms – neither the Nepal Army nor the PLA.

Some western countries, including the US, have been saying that till you keep the option of returning to violence open, suspicions are bound to linger. What do you say?

I think they have forgotten their own history. In every place including South Africa, Latin or Central America or Northern Ireland, none of the conflicting parties have laid down their arms before the final political settlement. The only thing is, before the political settlement is reached, arms are managed in a manner where both sides can be confident about it. The same rule will apply to Nepal. We are quite surprised why they are trying to apply different rules here.

Why has your party been demanding for the dissolution of HoR when the first thing it did after being restored was to call for CA election?

This issue has been settled already by the eight-point agreement. We want to form more representative parliament in the form of interim legislature. This parliament does not have wide representation. We are not in it. Many of the people who were in the movement are not represented in this parliament. This seven-year-old parliament does not represent the will of the people at this moment. So, the best thing will be to dissolve this parliament and create a new legislature.

Coming back to the economy, what are your party’s views regarding issues like privatization, liberalization, globalization and WTO processes?

I think this is, in fact, a non-issue. Nepalese economy is already in private hands. Ninety-five percent of economy is in private sector. So, there is no question of privatization, it is already privatized. But how much should be nationalized, that is the main thing. Some sector of the economy that needs protection from international competition, we have to discuss about it.

How do you feel about the process of interim constitution making? There were some initial controversies and delay.

Unfortunately, there were some delays initially. Now it has started to function. I think within few weeks, we will be able to have interim constitution.

Courtesy : Spotlight

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